hat El Desperado talks his busy summer
While the G1 Climax has waged on over the course of July and August, many a junior heavyweight would be forgiven for taking the time to rest, recuperate and train for the rest of the year to come. Yet for El Desperado especially, this has been an active summer that’s spanned multiple promotions, and culminates in Philadelphia at All Star Jr. Festival. We spoke to Despe about a supposed summer vacation that’s been anything but.
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Narita’s a lot like me- I think it’ll take time to get through to him, but when he gets it…
–You’ve had quite a busy year so far between doing your thing individually and as part of Strong Style.
Desperado: I’ve been so busy, I can’t really remember all that much. I can remember my opponents, but I’ve been so many places, the dates and the towns are all merged together.
–Can we start by talking a bit about Strong Style? What do you think about how the team has progressed so far?
Desperado: In my mind, I was with Suzuki. I got in that ring that night because Suzuki was there for Narita. If it hadn’t have been Narita, I wonder who.
–What’s your assessment of Ren Narita?
Desperado: In terms of sheer skill, there’s stuff he’s really good at, and then there’s things where I’ve been like ‘what do you mean you can’t do this’? But there’s a little bit where me and Suzuki can be there and show him stuff direct.
–So you can demonstrate and he picks it up?
Desperado: Hmm, If he sees something, he can kind of do it. But it’s not about that. If you don’t get the logic behind it, you can’t really put it into use. If he just sees something, it goes in one eye and out the other. But if you sit down with him and talk it over, ask him ‘if you do this, what happens?’ and then get him to try it one time? He picks it up that way really quick.
–He has to make it his own.
Desperado: He’s by no means incapable. He has more upside than me when it comes to height and reach. There’s no reason why he shouldn’t have been in the G1 in my opinion. He and I are similar in a way, we’re both pretty straightforward.
–You? Straightforward?
Desperado: I mean, if you said, am I straightforward or am I flashy, I think my matches speak for themselves, his too. Ospreay, Hiromu (Takahashi), Shota (Umino), those guys are flashy.
–OK, I see your point.
Desperado: I think you can be a power guy and still be about flash. Yota Tsuji for example. Me and Narita, we aren’t ones to draw people in with one massive move, it’s more a subtle progress, putting each thing in the right order in the right place. But that can make you a little narrow minded.
–In what way?
Desperado: We don’t really pay much attention to whatever people around us are doing, and whatever people say to us, we don’t really listen. You can tell him something and he’ll just go ‘oh, like this?’ and do it his way anyway. That’s a lot like me- so a lot like me, it’ll take him time I think.
–You went through your struggles to get where you are.
Desperado: I was in a rush, in a lot of different ways and for a lot of different reasons. Nothing I did was working out. You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make it drink. Sometimes you might just have to find a different well.
–It sounds like you’re really good for Narita to have along with him.
Desperado: Well, I haven’t directly told him what I just told you, heh. But when I see him in that kind of rush like I was in, it just takes a tap on the shoulder and ‘hey, it’ll be OK,’ kind of thing.
–You think he’ll be a success down the stretch.
Desperado: Hey, it’ll be OK (laughs).
I was just looking at our opponents. Kasai was looking at them, me, and the crowd
–I wanted to go in depth into some of your year so far- on July 4 you teamed with Jun Kasai in Korakuen…
Desperado: It was a thrill plain and simple. I wanted one more round with Moxley, and when he said he’d bring a partner, and that partner was Homicide, I knew I needed someone special- it had to be Kasai.
–There was only one right choice.
Desperado: There’s other deathmatch guys like Takeda or Takashi Sasaki, but Kasai was the only one that would make sense with me, and it was a real feel good moment for it to come true.
–And then there you were, and with Kasai’s first NJPW match.
Desperado: Me asking him was the first step, there was a lot of hoops to jump through to make it happen. And then the ref, it had to be Barb Sasaki.
–You did promise you would ‘make all the right preparations’.
Desperado: The only thing that I asked for and didn’t get was I wanted Toyama (FREEDOMS ring announcer) to make the ring call, but apart from that.
–It took a lot to make happen, but what do you remember from the match itself?
Desperado: I remember the one trip he and I had. I went to shoot Kasai into the corner for something, and he tried to reverse me so I’d be making the impact. I was just looking at our opponents, but he was conscious of them, of me, of the people as well. That shows the difference in experience when it comes to deathmatches.
–It was still an excellent match, and set up that memorable battle with Jon Moxley the next night.
Desperado: That was rough, but a ton of fun. Sasaki told me ‘deathmatches aren’t made to be done on two nights in a row’. It was definitely something. It hurt like hell waking up.
–I can only imagine how beat up you must have felt.
Desperado: I was running a fever, because my body was working to heal up all those wounds. So I didn’t want to move at all, but going into the second night I knew there wouldn’t be another situation like this, where I could wrestle Mox one on one.
–The first night in Korakuen was sold out, and the second night pretty much there. Was that something you took pride in as a main eventer?
Desperado: Nah, I didn’t pay much mind. To be honest, Moxley, Homicide, Kasai in those two nights, Yota Tsuji would have filled that house as well as I did.
–You think?
Desperado: Ehh, I dunno. You had the staff that worked their asses off, they were promoting that show hard on social media and everything. If the people didn’t know about the matches they wouldn’t sell. It’s all about how you promote. The people involved put the work in, and that’s why we had that full house and that huge pop that Kasai got.
–Speaking of deathmatches, before those Korakuen matches you’d already been to America for GCW.
Desperado: It was part of GCW’s deathmatch tournament. The first round was in a three way and then the next night I had Joey Janela. That was a wild weekend. I didn’t know the Janela match was going to be a deathmatch. I was having lunch with (Toru) Sugiura and (Tomoya) Hirata from FREEDOMS, and happened to see it on Twitter.
–That’s how you found out!
Desperado: This torn up mask I have, that came from the first round, that three way. Matt Tremont and Wayne Murdoch just ripped it apart.
–Your mask took a beating, too.
Desperado: It was the first time I’d used light tubes. Light tubes, glass boards… those really are things not to be taken lightly.
–I see.
Desperado: I mean, I can use them if I have to, I think, but I definitely don’t want the mindset of using them all casual like. They’re super dangerous and hurt like hell. The first time I ate them, I had them in my hands and they were for Tremont- they kind of backfired on me.
–Can you put that experience into words?
Desperado: It broke through my adrenaline. You know, I think the adrenaline was buzzing on my entrance, but that shot was a step above.
–Do you feel this deathmatch experience has improved you as a wrestler?
Desperado: Hm. I’m not one to brag about what I’ve done, and in a lot of ways I’m the easily embarrassed type, but if my body being scarred up now has fans saying ‘ah, that’s from this match in so and so,’ there’s something to that. I still have people coming up to me and saying nice things about my match last year with Kasai, and that always makes me happy to hear.
It’s our duty to help people that came before.
–You have that tequila you won when you faced Daisuke Sasaki in Ryogoku for DDT with you. How was that match on July 23?
Desperado: One thing that people get confused about was this all came from TAKATaichi back in December. Hiromu has been running round all over the place and I think some people got the wrong idea that it all stemmed from All Star Junior Festival, but it had nothing to do with that.
–Right. What are your thoughts on Sasaki?
Desperado: You can tell if you watch his promos, but he’s a smart guy, funny, and a good communicator. That isn’t just a promo thing, that’s speaking person to person.
–How about as a wrestler? How was it when you locked up with him?
Desperado: We aren’t dissimilar. In terms of flash there’s nothing we couldn’t do if we had to. But there’s always that talk of you know how good a guy is when you’re chain wrestling at the start of a match. That sounds like I’m full of sh*t to say, but I can definitely tell apart the ‘can’s from the ‘can’t’s.
–There’s the famous expression in the business of knowing when you lock up with someone.
Desperado: Wasn’t it Neptune Man in the Kinnikuman anime? ‘If I lock up with someone, they’ll know, so I don’t lock up (laughs). But yeah, it’s true in my book.
–Really.
Desperado: Like certainly in how stiff or loose they may be, you can get that, but there’s a lot in the timing, right?
–Ah.
Desperado: There’s such an importance on form in wrestling. Some people the timing might be completely off, sometimes your motions and breathing are right in sync. After those initial moments, each of you are trying to bring in elements that are your own, but that lockup is more universal. That’s why I like it, and why I try to lock up with as many people as possible.
–This was your first time in DDT- how was that ring and environment as opposed to NJPW?
Desperado: There’s probably differences, but I didn’t really feel anything unusual. If anything, the weird vibe I got was from a New Japan fan during that match.
–Really?
Desperado: I have a lot of respect for Sasaki, right? We finally had this singles match get underway, we go to start with chain wrestling, and this guy yells ‘you should be squashing this DDT bum!’ I wanted to hit the guy.
–Not exactly respectful.
Desperado: I mean, it’s the idea of ‘I paid my money, I can say what I want,’ but if that was a New Japan fan, that’s kind of embarrassing. On the other side, I was coming in to DDT from outside, so any of their fans could say anything they liked to me in my book.
–To change the subject a little, you have the mask with you here that you wore against Sasaki, and against Moxley in Korakuen. It’s a different design, right?
Desperado: So I used to have longer hair, and I thought there would be something in using that in some way. For BOSJ one year I had my hair in dreads, and made this mask.
–So the idea was to show off your hair.
Desperado: But then I hated my head being so hot so I had it all cut and given at a hair donation place. Then I was pretty much a skinhead all of a sudden.
–I gather that you said backstage you would take the tequila you won in that Sasaki match, and sign the empty bottle along with Sasaki, giving the proceeds to Shinjiro Otani and Yoshihiro Takayama.
Desperado: It became part of that match, so it has a sentimental value I think, and I wouldn’t want to just throw it out. So I figured it would be nice for it to come in useful somehow.
–So was that something that came to you after the match?
Desperado: No, it was right around the whole idea of the winner getting 100 bottles of tequila. As a wrestler we all feel we want the business to succeed, but I think it’s our duty to help the people that did so much for the business before us. I thought between (DDT produced bars) Swandive and Dropkick, and (Toru Yano’s) Ebrietas, we could do something.
–That’s where that Tweet came from.
Desperado: Anyway, I have mine, Sasaki has his, (wrestling personality) Niguro san asked for one in advance. I have 97 bottles left. So I think we can have two or three all you can drink tequila events as well.
My travel karma passed to Tanahashi
–I look forward to the event! How was the trip abroad for GCW?
Desperado: It was a lot of fun, but all in all I did 10 matches in 12 days.
–That’s a tough schedule!
Desperado: And I flew back on Independence Day at 6:30 AM. If my flight was off, I would have missed the tag with kasai against Homicide and Moxley, they’d have had to do a three way or something.
–And you tend to have bad luck with flights.
Desperado: Well, this time I was OK and Tanahashi went through it lately, so I think my karma passed onto him somehow (laughs).
–There seemed to be a lot of confusion about your contract status as you were making this trip, which you had to snap back on.
Desperado: Dave Meltzer wrote something like ‘Desperado is a freelancer so he can take all these outside bookings’, which was absolute BS.
–It became quite a story for a bit.
Desperado: When you have NJPW wrestlers go out to these other companies, there’s some cross promotion involved there, there’s an acknowledgement and a little bit of publicity on NJPW’s end. To an extent, from a promoter’s standpoint, that publicity is part of my payoff, that they’re able to book ‘NJPW star El Desperado’. NJPW’s name value there is as, or more, important than my own, so to go about and take that branding away from me for no reason stank.
–In the wake of the July 4 match alongside Jun Kasai, another tag match with him against Rina Yamashita and Masahi Takeda was set for August 11 in Yokohama. (Interview conducted early August)
Desperado: I was really happy to have that invitation, and went to FREEDOMS myself to accept. Just before I went out there, Kasai and Takayuki Ueki had this match where they were out there barefoot in thumbtacks, so I really had to take a bump in all those tacks to make things feel kinda fair. Kasai took that as an official acceptance which is on brand for him. Anyone else they would have waited until I made it official on the mic, but he took it instead and thanked me for the reply. He gets it, he’s an entertainer, man.
–That led to this match with Takeda and Yamashita.
Desperado: With it being Kasai’s 25th anniversary, I thought that Takeda and Yamashita would be a part of it at some point. To be involved with that is just super exciting. It’s all come up Desperado (laughs).
–Then on August 19, you team with MAO against Nick Wayne and Jordan Oliver.
Desperado: I’m stoked to team with MAO. I have no idea what the hell he’s saying most of the time though. He’s like a space alien come to Earth. But I definitely appreciate his energy. He wanted to bring DDT to more people, flew himself and Yoshihiko to the US, Tweeted in English a whole bunch. He’s put together too- why he has so much respect for TAKA Michinoku I don’t know!
–From one ‘space alien to the original space alien…
Desperado: They had that singles match in Ryogoku for DDT. That Michinoku Driver II off the top was sick.
–What’s your take on Wayne and Oliver?
Desperado: Nick Wayne really is a prodigy. His personal story is incredible, and has so much upside as a wrestler.
–A lot of potential.
Desperado: His partner Jordan Oliver might not have the story that Wayne does, but physically, skill and size wise, he’s awesome. They really stood out when GCW came to Shin Kiba recently. I want them in Best of the Super Junior.
–Nick is very young.
Desperado: 18, right? His dad trained Darby Allin, and that all led to Allin giving him an AEW contract for his 18th birthday. Now he’s over there, I don’t know if we’ll get him for BOSJ…
— That is a heck of a story.
Desperado: He had an awesome debut match with Swerve Strickland. Well, I guess if Wheeler Yuta can do BOSJ, Nick Wayne isn’t out of the question.
–This will be an important introduction for Wayne and Oliver to the Japanese fans. Might turn out to become a very important match.
Desperado: Definitely if we can get MAO and both of those guys in BOSJ next year then this match will have become pretty important.
I want to do everything nobody thinks NJPW would do
–Speaking of BOSJ, you didn’t get the results you wanted in the tournament this year, eliminated in the semifinal.
Desperado: My right leg still isn’t quite right from when it was worked over by Titan in that match…
–Being one step away from the finals, was that a frustration to you? The fans definitely seemed to feel that way.
Desperado: I think the guys in the ring feel that emotion all the more. To have the fans express that kinda puts things in perspective in a way. S**t happens.
–Titan really came into his own during BOSJ. Do you feel that was more to do with NJPW and New Japan fans getting more accustomed to lucha, or more Titan adapting himself to the Japanese style?
Desperado: A little bit of both. The more he comes to Japan, the more the fans become familiar with him and what he does. Then he’s fit the lucha rhythm, the tempo and the match structure to the New Japan style as well. Both of that together has made him a huge success this year.
–Mike Bailey’s success was another big story of the tournament. It showed how deep the junior field is worldwide right now.
Desperado: That’s definitely a way to look at it. I kind of think the flip side is we have a lot of junior heavyweights on hand here. The negative consequence is we didn’t see many of those kind of matches you can only get in BOSJ, in my opinion.
–I see.
Desperado: But, you know, singles matches are rare enough that there was some freshness there, and I think there was an emotional hook with a lot of those matchups.
–Master Wato won the tournament this year. Do you think that’s down to a big awakening for him?
Desperado: Hideki Suzuki said that pro-wrestling isn’t about a sudden awakening, but a gradual turning of the corner. It’s little by little, imperceptible, but then all of a sudden you feel yourself crossing those checkpoints.
–We’ve talked a lot about your journeys over the last few months, but what are your takes on what Hiromu Takahashi has done? With All Star Junior Festival 2023 as a base, he’s found himself wrestling in all sorts of promotions as well.
Desperado: Well, as long as he enjoys himself. And he had that connection with Fujita Jr. Hayato- him being able to get back into the ring and for them to be able to wrestle one another really is special.
–It feels like the two of you have become ambassadors for pro-wrestling as a whole, junior heavyweights in particular.
Desperado: Well, so long as I am a pro-wrestler, I want to do absolutely everything that’s possible within pro-wrestling.
–I see.
Desperado: You can wrestle on mats, you can wrestle on the street, you can wrestle like Gatoh Move do in their little Choco Plaza place. Deathmatches too. I don’t think it makes sense to paint yourself into a box. It’s a wide ocean and I want to dip my toes in all of it.
–So, any plans for the last half of the year?
Desperado: I know there’s people who think ‘oh New Japan would never do this or that’. I want to do every single one of those things, make them think ‘NJPW are letting that guy do this?’ That said, I want a singles IWGP title as well… To be honest, recently in and out of the ring I’ve been doing so much I forget what day it is right now let alone what I want to do in the future. But I know I’m excited by it.
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